We sat down with Zookeeper Devin Turner to learn all about Orangutans in this week’s episode of the Sedgwick County ZooCast.
Hear about Sumatran Orangutans’ habitat and conservation and meet the orangutans that call SCZ home.
Read Audio Transcript
INTRO (00:00)
*Music- you and me the adventure me and you to the zoo*
EMILY BISHOP: Hello and welcome to the Sedgwick County ZooCast, where we are inspiring respect and conservation for wildlife and wild places through caring, connecting, and conserving.
I’m your host, Emily Bishop. And today on the ZooCast. We’ll be sitting down with zookeeper Devin Turner to talk about orangutans.
Keep listening to learn about orangutan facial expressions, why they’re the “gardeners of the forest,” and how you can help orangutans at Sedgwick County Zoo and in the wild.
INTERVIEW WITH ZOOKEEPER DEVIN TURNER // LEARN ABOUT ORANGUTANS (00:44)
BISHOP: Thank you so much for joining us again on the ZooCast, Devin.
For people who don’t know, Devin was a guest on our first bonus episode where we talked about Alizeti, a chimp that was born here at SCZ. So, if you haven’t listened to that episode, go do that when you finish listening to this episode. The whole primate team who were guests for that episode did a fantastic job.
So yeah, thank you for coming back to the podcast.
So, if just to get started, you could give an introduction talk about who you are and what you do here at Sedgwick County Zoo.
DEVIN TURNER: Sure. I’m Devin Turner, and I’ve been a primary keeper for our chimpanzees and orangutans for over 20 years.
BISHOP: Can you kind of walk us through what the average day looks like for you?
TURNER: Well, all of our days vary quite a bit because we’re working with wild animals. But usually we get to work, we get our updates from the day before, we grab some diet, start feeding and shifting our animals. All the apes are checked on, fed their breakfast, given any medications or supplements. And they also get a brief training session in the morning.
Once all of the apes are enjoying their breakfast and off exhibit, we clean the exhibits, get them set up for the day. At- like I said, every day is different depending on the enrichment, the weather, any management changes we need to make, group dynamics, things like that.
And then we once the exhibits are clean, the apes are shifted into their exhibit areas, and we clean all their bedrooms. We also clean their laundry, their dishes, their enrichment, we prepare medications and diets for the following day. And we also prepare enrichment for that evening. We observe the animals throughout the day, and to monitor any changes in their behavior, changes in their physical health, our group dynamics. We do positive reinforcement training with all of our apes, as I mentioned, we do a little in the morning. But we work on new behaviors, medical behaviors, or maintenance behaviors as needed. In the afternoon, we prepare their bedrooms for overnight. This includes their bedding, enrichment, what they’re going to have for dinner.
And then we shift our hips to the appropriate spaces for overnight. Our orangutans are all… the adults are separated overnight. This allows them to relax and enjoy their food while not enjoying someone else’s dinner. And it gets them the alone time that they seem to enjoy. Orangutans are mostly solitary, they’re the most solitary of all the apes. So, they seem to enjoy their alone time. And then we give any afternoon medications. We check on everybody one more time. And then we tell everybody good night.
BISHOP: So, you mentioned training sessions.
TURNER: Mhm
BISHOP: So, what all does that entail?
TURNER: All of our apes are… they- they participate in operant conditioning training. We have them present body parts. We use that for medical purposes, wounds, just checking their physical health. They also will let us brush their teeth. We do training so that they’ll take injections when we need to give them medications, vaccinations, or immobilize them. So that’s kind of some of the training that we do on a day-to-day basis.
BISHOP: So how did you get started working with primates?
TURNER: So, I decided I wanted to work with animals when I was eight years old, and I went to SeaWorld the first time. I was determined I was going to work with marine mammals, but as you know, there’s no oceans really close to Kansas. So, I started volunteering at Sedgwick County Zoo when I was 15 years old, and I started in the Veldt with the hippos and rhinos, elephants. And I enjoyed working with land mammals, so I decided to shift my focus and become a zookeeper. I was hired as a full-time zookeeper in 2001 as a full-time farms keeper.
But I was lucky enough I had the opportunity to become a relief keeper. So, I work days and nights, and I worked all the different animal areas except for birds. And in doing so I got to meet the apes. And then I was hooked and that was… that was kind of the end.
BISHOP: That was that.
TURNER: That was that. Once I got to know them, I knew I didn’t want to go anywhere else.
BISHOP: So, for people who aren’t familiar with orangutans outside of like, “The Jungle Book,” can you talk about how orangutans in real life differ from orangutans in fiction?
TURNER: Well, there’s a lot less singing and dancing.
BISHOP: Yeah? That surprises me.
TURNER: Orangutans are very intelligent, and they have different personalities just like we do. They are very playful and silly, which a lot of the fiction portrays, but they are also very resilient. They’re contemplative, and their resourceful.
BISHOP: So, we have Sumatran orangutans here at SCZ. And what are they like compared to other orangutan species?
TURNER: Okay, well, there are three orangutan species. Their behaviors all pretty much similar, but their appearances are different.
So, Bornean orangutans are the only ones found on the island of Borneo. They are larger with darker, redder hair. They also seem… the males have bigge,r heavier cheek pads. The other two species- species, the Tapanuli and the Sumatran orangutans can be found on the island of Sumatra. They have lighter colored hair, and their faces tend to be more narrow, and their hair is longer as well. The Tapanuli orangutan has frizzy hair and smaller heads, kind of flatter faces.
But Sumatran orangutans, they’re known for their fabulous beards. And one of our individuals Kinali has like, the best beard. So, when you see him, you’re like, “oh, that’s the Sumatran beard that we’re talking about.”
BISHOP: So, the difference is primarily physical?
TUNER: Yes.
BISHOP: Okay.
TURNER: Yeah, they’re all mostly solitary in the wild.
BISHOP: Okay.
So how do they communicate with one another?
TURNER: So, orangutans, they communicate when they come together. They can also communicate from a distance. They have a variety of vocalizations. They’re just not heard very often because they’re not nearly as vocal as the other apes. The vocalization they’re most known for is the long call. This can be heard for almost a mile away. Adult males use it to establish their territory and attract females. It can also be done in response to a disturbance. But they use grunts that are used for play and greeting. They’ll use raspberries and grumbles; they do a kiss squeak vocalization when they’re scared. Babies will scream or cry when they’re scared.
I will say that a lot of these vocalizations that are done by wild orangutans are done by zoo orangutans, but they’re kind of done in a different context. But no matter whether they’re in the wild or at zoos, they’re always done as a form of communication. They can use gestures as well, if they’re in close proximity. They’ll point, they’ll shake branches, or they’ll wave their arms and stuff like that for closer communication.
BISHOP: So, we have quite a few orangutans here at SCZ. Can you talk about them?
TURNER: I love to talk about them.
So, I will just let you know their ages. And then I can get into their personalities if- if you want.
BISHOP: That’d be great.
TURNER: So, Panji is our oldest, he’s 28. Tao is 19. She is the only individual we have that was not born here at Sedgwick County Zoo. She was born in Leipzig, Germany, and she came to us from Dortmund, Germany in 2016. We have Kinali, he’s 12. Mulia is five, but she’ll be six in January. And Lily just turned five last month.
BISHOP: Well, happy birthday to her.
TURNER: Panji is very shy around men. He’s probably the most sensitive animal in the building.
BISHOP: Aww
TURNER: Which is surprising because he’s the largest. But he doesn’t like change, loud noises, strangers, and he is terrified of earthquakes. But he’s also one of the best at training. Most of our apes like training and do really well at it, but he takes it to another level. He loves medical training, including shots, blood draw, blood pressure, pulse oximeter. But blood draws and injections are like his favorite behaviors, which is not a normal behavior for an ape to enjoy, but he really likes it. He also really loves his food so he can be lazy and we have to watch his diet and encourage some exercise.
Another fun fact about him- when we have new babies, he’s terrified of them. Very, very scared of new babies. But once they get a little older, he’s a favorite playmate. And he really enjoys being around his kids. He’s a great dad.
BISHOP: Yeah, that sounds like me. I don’t… Anytime like, my cousins or a friend has like, a newborn and they’re like, “do you want to hold her?” I’m like no…
TURNER: Yeah, when that- when Kinali was born, he hid out on exhibit for days.
BISHOP: He didn’t even want to be in the same room.
TURNER: No. And we, because we had him in hand, we took Kinali and tried to show him, and he ran. So, so yeah, he was terrified. And even when either of the girls were born, he, he looks in the window, he’s like, “nope,” and he goes far away. So, but he’s great once they get a little older.
BISHOP: Yeah.
TURNER: And Tao- Tao is silly. She’s creative and smart. She does things her very own way and will teach her ways to the others. A good example of that is she’ll kind of put orange peels in her hair and chew on them and kind of suck the zest out of it. And this has been seen in other orangutans, but we’ve never seen it here. But she’s taught all of them to do it. So… So, she’s our most inventive with enrichment. She’ll tie knots and use sheets or burlap and make hammocks or tents for herself to play in.
She is also a little destructive with her toys. And she has been challenging our maintenance department since she got here. So, they’re all very familiar with Tao. It’s like, “what she break today.”
But she’s very sweet with keepers. She’s very dominant with other orangutans, but she’s super sweet with people. She loves to be a ham and really show off when we have a crowd. She’s a good mom. She’s really been a great mom to Mulia.
And I would say that she’s so resilient. Because she came to us from Germany, she wasn’t familiar with our language. That was the first time she’s ever been away from her mom. And so. I’m sure that was scary. She’s in a completely different place. Our diets are so different than what she used to eat in Germany. And yet, she took it all in stride. And she’s just done amazing. And I have to say that she is one of the most fun individuals that I’ve ever had the privilege to work with.
Kinali, well he’s the best. He was born in 2011, to Daisy, who is the world’s best orangutan and we miss her every day. She didn’t really know what she should do with him. She wasn’t aggressive towards him at all. She was just- had no desire to pick him up or do anything maternal with him. So, we taught her how to be a mom, we kind of shared custody, which was the first time that that had really been done with orangutans.
But he’s turned out great. He’s the best of both worlds. He is very orangutan; he does orangutan things. He wants to hang out with them, play with them. But he’s also really good with people. So, he’s kind of a nice mixture of that. He’s very socially savvy, and he loves to people watch. He did learn that from his mom.
And one of his favorite things is he likes to look at your hair, especially if you haven’t put up in a ponytail, or bun, or braid. He’ll kind of point behind you. And he wants you to turn around. And he’ll just, he’s fascinated by your hair. And then he’ll ask you to do that again, and again, and again, and again. So that’s if you see an orangutan out here asking to see your hair, that’s definitely Kinali.
Mulia, she’s fearless and she is funny. She takes after a mom and a lot of ways. She is our smallest orangutan. She’s very svelte, like her mother. But she is great at training. She’s very smart. She takes to it very quickly. And we’re really excited to see how she grows up because she’s just such a… such a fun and smart individual.
And then Lily. Lily’s our miracle baby. She was born via emergency C-section. She was in critical condition following that. And then shortly after that, she got an infection called Ralstonia pickettii, and that’s very rare. She was once again in critical condition. But she’s defied all those odds. She’s healthy and happy, crazy little orangutan. Her mom, Daisy, was taught to be a mom by us. However, it was Lily who really pushed her to be the best mom she could be. Lily is very stubborn, just like her mom. And it was amazing to see them together.
As many of you might know, sadly, on January 2 of this year, we lost Daisy. But Lily was with Kinali during that time; she had been with him and she did okay. It took her probably four to five days to really realize that Daisy wasn’t going to be returning. And she was quiet and subdued. But she rallied and she’s, she’s done really well.
Um, she had never met Panji. She had seen him through mesh and she was fascinated with him. But she’d never been in with Panji when Daisy was here. So, we decided that she needed more of an adult because her brother was very playful, but wasn’t really being that adult figure for her. So, even though they never do it in the wild, we decided to see how her dad would do.
There is history of males stepping up in zoos, including the Denver Zoo, they have… Their male is raising his daughter right now. And I know Toledo has had their male raise an infant in the past. So, we decided to try it. And she was very nervous at first because he’s so much bigger than her. I honestly think he was just as nervous as her though. He’d never been around a kid without a mom, so… But they’re doing great. And they’ve been together 24/7 for months.
She still loves her keepers, and she enjoys playing with Mulia and Kinali when she has mesh contact with them. And losing her mom was hard on her, but she has just continued to surpass all our expectations. And we’re very proud of her and we know her mom would be proud of her too.
BISHOP: That’s very sweet.
So, I know you talked about it a little bit with some of them. But how can you tell the orangutans apart?
TURNER: Well, Panji is the largest. He’s our only mature male. So, he has the big cheek pads. He has a pronounced throat sack and he’s got very, very long hair. Tao, our adult female, she’s similar in size to Kinali. But she doesn’t have a pronounced beard. Kinali, our sub-adult male, has that incredible beard that I mentioned. And he’s growing quickly. So, he is surpassing Tao in size pretty quickly. And he’s maturing.
So even though he doesn’t have his cheek pads, yet. He has tiny ridges on the side of his face where he’ll be getting those in the next several years. Mulia is our smallest orangutan. Like I said, she’s svelte like her mother. She kind of looks like a miniature Tao, really. She’s always had a more grown-up face, where Lily has a baby face. Lily is also very fluffy. She’s got great hair and a little bit of a belly.
BISHOP: So, the cheek pads on the orangutans are something that come in later in the males?
TURNER: Yes, that’s considered a secondary sexual characteristic. So, they get those when they reach full maturity. Panji got them in his mid-teens. So, they can be delayed when there’s another male around. So, we’re not exactly sure when Kinali will get them but- but it looks like he’s working on it, so…
BISHOP: So, since orangutans are primarily solitary, how does that work in a zoo environment?
TURNER: Our orangutans are very social, they enjoy being with each other, like I said. For us- all zoos kind of work differently just depending on their facility and their individuals. For us, we like to separate them at night, which seems to kind of relieve any social stress that’s kind of building. Tao and Mulia are obviously always together, and they’re with Kinali during the day, right now. And Lily and Panji are always together, which is another easy way to tell them apart. Because if you see Panji, that’s Lily that he’s with.
But yeah, we- we put them together during the day and we give them chances to be social. They do play quite a bit with each other, so they enjoy it. But they’re also very ready to go into their bedrooms at night.
BISHOP: So, our orangutans live at the Koch Chimpanzee and Orangutan habitat. But what is an orangutan habitat like in the wild?
TURNER: Orangutans live in rainforests. They are arboreal meaning that they live in the top of the trees and sometimes, they rarely come to the ground. They are very slow on the ground. So, when you live in an environment that also has tigers, the ground is not your friend. But they move tree to tree in the canopy. They make their nests up high. They can live in primary or secondary forests, and they can be found at higher elevations, but most are found in lowland areas. They prefer forests and river valleys or floodplains.
BISHOP: So, what ecological niche are they fulfilling within their environment?
TURNER: Orangutans are known as the “gardeners of the forest.” They disperse the seeds, which is vital for maintaining a healthy forest ecosystem. Many animal species as well as humans depend on that forest for their survival. For example, Sumatran rhinos, there’s tigers, Bornean elephants, all depend on that forest. So that’s really where they fit in is dispersing the seeds.
BISHOP: Can you talk about orangutan conservation?
TURNER: It is important because like I said, orangutans help the forest and keep them healthy. And so, by saving orangutans, we can save many other species as well. Orangutans are critically endangered. They reproduce very slowly, and they have the longest mother dependency of any animal other than humans. So, it takes a very long time for their, for their population numbers to recover.
They are unfortunately at a real risk for extinction due to habitat loss on both items- I’m sorry, due to habitat loss on both islands. It is probable that the current numbers that we think are there are actually lower. They estimate that approximately 2,000 to 3,000 Bornean orangutans were killed every year for the past four decades alone. And that represents a loss of more than 50% of the original population in just 40 years. And at that rate of killing, orangutan populations could be reduced to extinction in the next 50 years.
BISHOP: So, why are orangutans targeted for like, killing and poaching?
TURNER: Their biggest threat is loss of habitat. There’s palm oil plantations- palm oil is it… is not a terrible product. It’s… but unfortunately, it grows, where the orangutans live. So, they slash and burn a lot of their forests to make the palm oil plantations. When orangutans encroach on those, sometimes they’re killed.
There’s still many that end up in pet homes. And unfortunately, in order to get a baby orangutan, you usually kill their mother. So, there’s a lot of sanctuaries over in both Sumatra and Borneo that have a lot of these orphans that don’t have their moms anymore. And they’re trying to rehabilitate them so that they can go out in the forest once they’re ready.
BISHOP: So, if listeners wanted to get involved with orangutan conservation, what can they do?
TURNER: Well, for starters, supporting Sedgwick County Zoo does help wild orangutans. Sedgwick County Zoo is a partner of the orangutan SAFE program. That’s an AZA program that partners zoos with the organizations doing the conservation in the wild. Orangutans SAFE funds, habitat restoration, rehabilitation and releases back into the forest, anti-poaching and trafficking prevention, education about wild orangutans and their plight, and they also promote community-based conservation. So, our animals are ambassadors for the wild and the SAFE program really helps them give back to their wild counterparts.
In addition to just supporting zoos that are members of orangutans safe, you can also use the Cheyenne Mountain zoos palm oil app. That app will let you know which products are using Sustainable Palm Oil. Because like I said, loss of habitat for palm oil production is one of the biggest threats to wild orangutans. You can use sustainable forest products. And as always, reduce, reuse, and recycle. Because deforestation is a major contributing factor to the population decline of wild orangutans.
LEARN ABOUT WILD LIGHTS (23:21)
BISHOP: We’ll be back in a moment to learn more about orangutans. But first let’s hear about upcoming events at the Zoo.
Follow the white rabbit to a land of wonder at this year’s Wild Lights.
Come face to face with one of a kind Asian Lantern Sculptures. Maybe a Cheshire Cat will cross your path or the Queen’s guard of playing cards. Be the guest of honor at a tea party hosted by a hatter and a hare.
Wednesday through Sunday, October 11th through December 17 from 6pm to 9pm.
Tickets start at $15 and are available online or in person.
Journey through the looking glass at Wild lights.
WHAT DO SCZ GUESTS THINK ABOUT ORANGUTANS? (24:06)
BISHOP: The great thing about the Sedgwick County Zoo is that not only is it a place with a passion for conservation and education, but we also have a passion for community. It’s a great place to socialize.
So, the Sedgwick County ZooCast team took to the streets to ask visitors what they thought about orangutans.
ZOO GUEST: Cool man, they just, they move around so easily. You know it’s just like, fun to see how agile they are.
BISHOP: Did you see the orangutan inside?
YOUNG ZOO GUEST: Um… Yeah…
BISHOP: What did you think about them?
YOUNG ZOO GUEST: I don’t know.
ZOO GUEST: They’re very flexible and they’re fun to watch.
ZOO GUEST: I love the orangutans. They’re always so… playful and cute.
YOUNG ZOO GUEST: Yeah, they just pick up a boat… Like in the water… with water?
BISHOP: Yeah. Was that cool?
YOUNG ZOO GUEST: Yeah, it was.
ANSWERING QUESTIONS FROM THE AUDIENCE (25:06)
BISHOP: So, now we have some questions from the audience. And these questions were all submitted through our Instagram- @SedgwickCountyZoo.
So, @KerrySchwarzenberger asks, “how much food do they eat in one day?”
TURNER: So, orangutans can eat about 10% of their body weight. So, it’s quite a bit.
BISHOP: What all do they get as part of their diets?
TURNER: They get a lot of fruits and vegetables here at the Zoo. In the wild, a lot of them can- if they live in a primary forest, they’re frugivores. But their fruit there has a lot less sugar than our fruit. So, I think they estimate that their fruit has about as much sugar as like a carrot.
BISHOP: Oh, wow
TURNER: So very different than apples and oranges. So, we of course can’t feed all fruit, because our orangutans would, they would get very heavy and that wouldn’t be healthy for them. So, ours eat a lot of leafy greens. They do get fruit, they get a variety of vegetables, their diets a little different every day. They also get biscuits that are a complete diet that have a lot of the nutrients and vitamins that they need
BISHOP: @DanKertorVosaurus wants to know, “how do orangutans interact with other animals in their environment, if at all?”
TURNER: Well, orangutans don’t interact too much with other animals. Our orangutans don’t have animals that live in with them. But when wildlife gets into their space, they’re usually not very happy about it.
There are some zoos that exhibit orangutans with other animals such as siamangs or gibbons. And those interactions vary widely just depending on the ages, and the personalities of the apes involved.
BISHOP: @NurseryDebDeb asks, “what is a food they really like that would surprise most people?”
TURNER: This one was… this one was a hard one. But they love pickle juice. They eat whole lemons and limes, which is something that I think most of us would think would be a little bit strong. And all of them, except for Panji, enjoy eating beet pulp. So, we give that as to increase their fiber. And we just reconstituted with some water and some juice. And four of our orangutans think it’s great.
BISHOP: And finally, @KeeperKaylaB asks, “pretty please just tell everyone it’s orange-TAN, not orange-TANG.”
TURNER: That is true. There is no “G” on the end. It is orangutan. And that that gets translated to “man of the forest.” It’s also … we try to use the whole word because if you just… “orang” that is saying …that- that is the word for “man.” So, you’re, it can be offensive to certain people if they speak that language.
BISHOP: Yeah, so full word.
TURNER: Orangutan, with an “N” on the end.
LEARN HOW YOU CAN HELP THE ZOO CARE FOR ORANGUTANS (27:59)
BISHOP: Before Devin and I finish our conversation about orangutans, let’s learn about how you can help with their conservation and care.
If you’ve enjoyed learning all about orangutans in today’s episode, consider adopting one and becoming a Zoo Pal.
Starting at just $25, as a Zoo Pal, your donation goes directly towards the care of Sedgwick County Zoo animals. We also have some great perks for Zoo Pals, including recognition in the zoo, a certificate of adoption, a plush animal and more.
Adopt an orangutan and become a Zoo Pal today. Just visit scz.org for more information.
CLOSING THOUGHTS ON ORANGUTANS (28:47)
BISHOP: As an ending note, I just have a few more questions.
So, what question do you get asked the most by guests about orangutans?
TURNER: I would say that I’m asked if they’re sad. Orangutans have different facial muscle- muscles than humans. So, their relaxed face can be interpreted sad. Many times, because apes are so much like humans, we misinterpret their facial expressions. So, showing teeth can be fear or aggression. It’s not the smile that we think it is. So even though it’s important to recognize all of their similarities, it’s also important to distinguish how they are different from us because they are not… They’re not sad. They’re just relaxed, and going about their business.
BISHOP: So, what is your favorite thing about orangutans?
TURNER: So, I had two different- because I wasn’t sure which direction you wanted me to go. But orangutans are known as the “thinkers of the jung- jungle.” So, watching them problem solve is fascinating. So, that is one of my favorite things.
But if you’re talking about their appearance, it is their feet. I love their feet. They have the cutest feet in the animal kingdom. I refer to them as their Muppet feet. And their opposable toes are much smaller than the African apes. They’re just like these little nubbins. And they’re adorable.
BISHOP: I’ll have to keep an eye out for that next time I’m out. I don’t think I’ve ever paid attention to that.
TURNER: They have adorable feet.
BISHOP: Okay…
TURNER: And they’re- they’re actually at an angle. So, when they walk, they’re kind of on the outside edge. And that’s because their, their ankles are at an angle so that they can move through the forest easier. They’re not… they won’t stand flat footed, like other African apes. So, fun fact.
BISHOP: That is a fun fact.
So, what is your favorite thing about working with orangutans?
TURNER: This is the easiest question. My favorite thing about working with orangutans is the relationship I have with them. They’re very intelligent, and by getting to know them as individuals, each keeper builds their own relationship of trust and understanding with each individual ape. So, it’s a very unique relationship that we have with each one of them.
OUTRO (31:01)
BISHOP: Thanks for listening to the Sedgwick County ZooCast.
This podcast is recorded on the traditional land of the Kiowa, Osage, Wichita, and Ute people, who have been stewards of the land since time immemorial.
This episode was researched, written and produced by me, Emily Bishop.
We’d like to give a special thank you to Devin Turner for sitting down and talking with us about orangutans.
Thank you to the Sedgwick County Zoo’s Marketing and Communication Team.
And a special thank you to our Zoo Members, whose support makes this podcast possible. If you’re interested in becoming a Zoo Member, visit scz.org/membership.
Be sure to give us a follow so you never miss when we upload a new episode.
Thanks for listening. Until next time, I’m Emily Bishop and this has been the Sedgwick County ZooCast.
